Ouch. That hurts. You have taken such a small part of what I have said and used it to paint me as someone who is taking advantage of the fact that Uber offers cheaper fares than a taxi service. And then to add salt to injury, you throw in that last line. While I agree somewhat with your point, your comment was just plain rude. There are so many other ways you could have said what you wanted to say without launching a borderline personal attack on me and trying to paint me as this horrible person.
Everyone can claim to be ethical, but at the end of the day whether you realise it or not, you're supporting people in not only your own country but other countries through the purchases you make everyday, not necessarily in the best way either. That $5 coffee you might purchase every morning is benefiting people picking coffee in coffee producing areas of the world. Those same people are getting paid horribly, they're also subjected to abusive work conditions bordering on fear tactics used to keep them working. You're helping people support families, but it is a catch-22, you're also not making things better either. So lets not get all self-righteous about this. Taking an Uber is no different than deciding to buy that new TV or pair of shoes.
That iPhone or Android device you probably own was made of components mostly manufactured in China at the lowest possible price to maximise the profits of a large corporation. The same thing, people working in those factories earning a few dollars per day (way below the poverty line) because they have no choice. The MacBook Pro or desktop computer is also made up of components built and assembled by people working in deplorable conditions for cents on the dollar.
At the end of the day Uber is a job. And while I do not agree with how Uber operates as a company or their misleading advertisements to get drivers, no matter if you're choosing to take an Uber or a taxi, you're putting money into someone's pockets. It might not be the best way to help someone, but at the same time there are a lot worse jobs out there in the US and other parts of the world where working conditions are dangerous, the money is even lower and the hours longer. At least with Uber you choose your own hours, how much you work is up to you.
The people making shoes, iPhones, TVs---they don't have to do that. They could do whatever they were doing before that factory came to town. But working in that factory is preferable.
The same thing is true for Uber drivers.
You don't have to feel guilty for any of these purchaes---you should only feel good about them, if anything.
That guy was very rude, but you are just accepting his argument and trying to use it against him. It's not a valid argument.
>>The people making shoes, iPhones, TVs---they don't have to do that. They could do whatever they were doing before that factory came to town.
This isn't always true. There are situations where some big factory shows up, ruins the local economy(usually by wrecking the environment) and now the only way to make a living is to be part of the company... or move far away. Leaving your homeland of generations is technically a choice, but emotionally... not really.
Right, but it's generally true. Do we really need to point out that there can be exceptions? Of course there can be. There are probably even factories in China where people are literally slaves. Is it necessary to say "Of course there ar exceptions" every time I say something that could have exceptions? Because somebody is always going to come back and point out an exception, as if it invalidates the generalization.
> Leaving your homeland of generations is technically a choice, but emotionally... not really.
It's always, truly, a choice. People can make choices regardless of how difficult it is to do so. It's a matter of free will.
First off, I agree. It was rude and when I wrote it I was in a bad mood in general. I think the ensuing discussion is definitely worth my karma hit; I'm a little bit sorry that you had to receive that aggressiveness, but reading your response I have hope it's ok.
What I felt when I read your post, and wrote my response, was not so much about you as about an attitude that I'm fed up with, which is basically "I can see how this system isn't working out, but I'm participating anyway because it treats me pretty good". And as you say, and others in this thread, there is something - an ideology, a rationalization or a truth - which excuses if not condones this.
I don't buy that coffee, I brew my own, and always buy eco and fairtrade. I know and agree that this isn't really working out either, but it's a start, and a "market signal" or whatever. Thing is, I've been to those coffee and cocoa plantations and guess what - things aren't working out for the people working there, either.
When it comes to the electronics, I'm painfully aware of the fact that the rare minerals are often mined by actual slaves, under gunpoint. What is probably the worst war since WWII is basically about minerals for smartphones, it's in The Congo[1] and has claimed millions of lives. All the while some of the world's wealthiest people are laughing and smiling about their billion dollar profits. So I don't get a new phone all the time. I have a Geeksphone Peak, for the record. Still, it needs cobalt and coltan and tin which might well have been mined by children, literally with their hands.
What javert says about choosing to work there just isn't that simple. What branchless says further down the thread is; it's about access to land. And those people working factories in China were removed from their land in agricultural reforms. It's a political thing and it has happened all over the world; see e.g. The Enclosure[2] in Britain.
This isn't simple at all, but since it's a market economy where all decisions are ultimately made by the "consumer", which is us in the context of this discussion, we have to make the right choices. And if we have the information, we can't just disregard that with "hey, at least it's a job". That's what bothers me the most about this; a lot of people just don't have the information to make the right choices. If the people who have the information, and the wealth, to make better choices don't, then we're doomed.
I realize how this will come through all high and mighty, but I think it's worth it to get a clear message across. The idea behind the market economy is that we organize ourselves according to every individual decision. In that case, it's up to everyone to make the best choice, using all available information. You can't have the cake and eat it.
If you don't agree with how Uber operates as a company, don't do business with them.
But Uber isn't forcing their workers at gunpoint, and it wasn't them that created the situation where the workers have no other alternatives.
If people are forced to get a badly paid job at Uber because the alternative is worse, and you remove Uber, guess what happens to the people you're trying to help?
If we want to help the people using Uber, we need to give them access to a better alternative so that they can leave voluntarily - be it giving them land or whatever. I don't claim I have a good solution, but we shouldn't fall into the Politician's Fallacy¹.
¹ "We must do something, this is something, we must do this"
I'm not talking about removing Uber. I'm not, and I don't get the idea DigitalSea is, in a position to "remove Uber". I'm not talking about any overarching ideology or abstract reasoning. I'm not "trying to help" people, either. I mean, it is what it is, right? What I take issue with is the reasoning that you and I almost have a moral imperative to go with the cheapest option, even though we are intelligent and well-informed, and can see that it's just not working out.
I'm talking about individual choice.
I also don't agree with your language, by the way. Uber's drivers are not using Uber; Uber are using them.
If you know that the alternative costs twice as much, and you doubt that the driver offering a ride for cheap can actually support his family, you have a choice.
If you are worried someone else might take a chunk of the expensive ride, or if you prefer the cheap ride anyway, you could always tip. US is the land of tipping, right? But then again, that might feel weird since the payment is centralized... Funny, that.
I can heartily recommend a Fairphone to anyone bothered about the plight of workers in war-torn Congo. They have a new on coming out next year which I'm hoping will be Lollipop. (Current version is stuck on 4.2, which is a shame, but still totally workable.)
Also I think Intel is getting is stuff conflict-free.
Yeap, I think that's the right attitude. I only got a Fairphone after my previous phone died in a freak punting accident†.
Fairphone did have a recent announcement that was suggestive of new OSes... but personally I think them supporting Android is important, so it can be an off-the-shelf replacement for another phone, rather than a bizarro thing for beardy-weirdy yoghurt knitters.
Everyone can claim to be ethical, but at the end of the day whether you realise it or not, you're supporting people in not only your own country but other countries through the purchases you make everyday, not necessarily in the best way either. That $5 coffee you might purchase every morning is benefiting people picking coffee in coffee producing areas of the world. Those same people are getting paid horribly, they're also subjected to abusive work conditions bordering on fear tactics used to keep them working. You're helping people support families, but it is a catch-22, you're also not making things better either. So lets not get all self-righteous about this. Taking an Uber is no different than deciding to buy that new TV or pair of shoes.
That iPhone or Android device you probably own was made of components mostly manufactured in China at the lowest possible price to maximise the profits of a large corporation. The same thing, people working in those factories earning a few dollars per day (way below the poverty line) because they have no choice. The MacBook Pro or desktop computer is also made up of components built and assembled by people working in deplorable conditions for cents on the dollar.
At the end of the day Uber is a job. And while I do not agree with how Uber operates as a company or their misleading advertisements to get drivers, no matter if you're choosing to take an Uber or a taxi, you're putting money into someone's pockets. It might not be the best way to help someone, but at the same time there are a lot worse jobs out there in the US and other parts of the world where working conditions are dangerous, the money is even lower and the hours longer. At least with Uber you choose your own hours, how much you work is up to you.