I’ve been on a SSRI for 5 years and not once have I thought about getting off of it. It literally saved my life.
I remember a while life of depression and constant churn of recursive emotions destroying me.
I’m worried that too many people are downplaying the benefits that this drug for those of us that it has helped immensely. And it’s extra risky to be downplaying it while RFK jr is actively working to remove the drugs from the market.
An unfortunate aspect of modern discourse and thinking is how black and white discussions can feel. Several sides of the topic can co-exist together and all be true, so (well, in my experience and reading):
- Some people really benefit from and even need SSRIs or other psychoactive drugs to function well in society.
- Too many people are prescribed them such that there may be more harm than good. They may have side effects or were prescribed them to deal with a situational problem that could have been better managed with therapy.
- Whether justified or no, a prescription is given with no off ramp provided. It's almost as if you're defective and the drug is fixing you, and the solution are pharmaceuticals, which again may be true for some subset of those prescribed. People clearly are trying to taper and are suffering.
More controversially, psychiatry is something of an art (if you're generous) or a racket. Because there's no way the "chemical imbalance in the brain" theory can be validated empirically. In the US you meet with one for 15m, get prescribed a cocktail of drugs, a few months later you report if it worked, and if not they'll up the dose or play around with the cocktail. I don't know how we call that stuff science.
> In the US you meet with one for 15m, get prescribed a cocktail of drugs, a few months later you report if it worked, and if not they'll up the dose or play around with the cocktail. I don't know how we call that stuff science.
Is that not science? It's on a small scale but this is all they have to work on. We don't understand enough, it is all trial and error.
I note that not all psychs operate this way, mine would not give me a perscription until several visits in.
Well, it's science if you consider the patient to be the subject of an experiment. But the point I was trying to make is - they don't directly measure serotonin or anything else in the brain. They can't see thoughts through a machine or measure 'chemical balance', whatever that is. They leave it to correlation - give drug, report result given by patient. It's like nutritional science, but even worse, because at least with nutritional science you can measure blood sugar or cholesterol. Psychology involves the outside world - relationships, financial security, social stresses, physical health, etc. Habits of mind. Traumas. So much more.
I think the issue is informed consent. If people find benefit in them by all means they should be able to take them. But currently these drugs are being given out for the most mundane issues, many of them temporary, after a 2 minute visit with a Primary Provider/GP, with little to no discussion on potentially permanent and serious effects, whether that be long term withdrawal or the equally life ruining PSSD. Neither of which seem to be particularly rare given the number of prescriptions.
I’m happy for your extreme good response to the drug. I’ve witnessed this type of response in my close circle once, and it is life saving medication in these situations.
I think it’s important to highlight that not every person has the same response to these medications. I think it’s absolutely something anyone struggling with depression should try, but there should be expectations about how long to stay on a medication before moving on.
> I’ve been on a SSRI for 5 years and not once have I thought about getting off of it.
I had this same outlook too. Was on one for about 6 years and then my first kid was born. I felt nothing emotionally when she came in to the world and I discussed this with my wife. Two years later, my second child was born and it was a radically different experience and I am glad I got off.
My GP warned me, "Don't cold turkey it, taper off, cut the dosage and ween off. Ask your wife to pay attention to your moods, if you go sour and can't recover, you may want to consider going back on."
Over those 6 years on it, I learned a lot about how to deal with the stress. I definitely think that's a missing key in the whole treatment process.
Chronic depression doesn't usually have a "cause" that you can fix without some form of treatment. It happens that these meds often do remove the extreme effects of depression and allow you to focus on other problems.
I have first hand experience. Also "depression" is different from "chronic depression". You can experience the former as the direct result of some cause.
Come on. Don’t roll into a conversation playing armchair expert criticizing others’ contributions when you’ve got nothing of substance to say.
You’re as capable of typing “causes of chronic depression” into a search bar as anyone else. The fact that you don’t do that indicates you don’t want to contribute. You just want to be argumentative.
There's situational depression (my mom died, my girlfriend dumped me, etc.) and then there's depression. Winston Churchill called his The Black Dog. It is relentless and not related to any situation you are in. If you don't understand then be thankful.
The cause is not entirely clear. SSRIs do not help you "bury it." It's not an emotional problem or a lifestyle problem or anything like that. There's no "it" to bury. SSRIs seem to remove whatever cause is in your brain/nervous system. They literally are lifesaving drugs with almost no side effects for many people!
If it comforts you to believe that depression always has a discernable cause that can be fixed without medication then go ahead and keep believing that.
This particular comment about Churchill and your dismissal of the experience of many depressed people sounds pretty spiteful to me (to borrow your diagnosis). Maybe some self examination could help you
I wonder if you feel the same about drug-based treatments for multiple sclerosis or ALS. Or hormone replacement therapy. Or palliative end of life care.
Sometimes treating symptoms is what we can do because we don’t have a cure.
Then don’t ask about whether the drugs cure the disease or just “bury it further”.
Own your opinion and state clearly that you don’t believe depression is real. Don’t argue silly tangents that serve only to obfuscate your actual point.
What might the difference between between ADHD and ALS though? One is a neurodegenerative disorder and the other is indiscernible from some ditsy airhead who can't be bothered to do things
See how freeing that is? You can just be honest about your beliefs and others can choose to engage or not based on that instead of playing some silly game of pretending that treating symptoms is a bad thing.
It’s ironic that the current secretary of health believes that medicines like SSRIs are overprescribed while simultaneously believing that TRT is underprescribed. It’s interesting to see how people can accept their own “treat the symptoms” medicine as appropriate but deny others. Especially when the primary symptom of low T that most attest is lack of energy and motivation. Aka “can't be bothered to do things”.
It's nasty because of the assumption that someone who is taking medication has "buried the cause further", in other words, done something to paper over the rent in their psyche that could have been fixed some other way.
In my case, I had depression for no apparent reason, and I went through dynamic psychotherapy, which is basically about finding that reason. That failed, I got worse, and basically was disabled after a few years. I finally found a medication, venlafaxine, that actually worked. My depression abated, I was no longer disabled. It has well-known withdrawal effects, so I tapered off of it very gradually. When I stopped, I was no longer suffering major depression. There was no removal of any particular cause.
> In my case, I had depression for no apparent reason, and I went through dynamic psychotherapy, which is basically about finding that reason.
What was happening with you at that point, where were you at? Riding ecstatically high with your wife kids and large circle of friends, the constant socialising and good times?
I can see that there is no point in continuing this conversation. I wish you the best and that you may never experience depression with your wonderously, fabulously ecstatic life.
Ok, Freud. You’ve successfully diagnosed the cause of Churchill’s chronic depression. Now what?
What is your treatment given that you’ve identified the cause as a past childhood experience. You got a time machine? Or do you treat the disease in the present?
I remember a while life of depression and constant churn of recursive emotions destroying me.
I’m worried that too many people are downplaying the benefits that this drug for those of us that it has helped immensely. And it’s extra risky to be downplaying it while RFK jr is actively working to remove the drugs from the market.