It’s not even close. A false equivalence. Assuming a camera represents a unit of surveillance, then that comparison might hold, but it’s what China actually does with that stuff that makes the difference.
There is always this knee-jerk “What about the US?” every time there is an article like this. If you haven’t lived in China and actually lived within their system, it’s easy to take for granted the freedom Americans have.
I taught in China and showed a YouTube (via VPN) of the Tiananmen Sqaure uprising to a classroom of high school senior journalism students. This was an international school and there wasn’t a single Chinese citizen in the room — a few days later I am called to the principal’s office because they had a visit from MSS about potential “subversive content” being presented in a classroom. This was about 6 years ago. Some of the teachers held clandestine bible study on weekends — the fact that it had to be clandestine should say something. Even the most radical Muslim in the US isn’t going to get arrested for having a religious meeting in his home. Of course if the conversation leads to a conspiracy to commit violence, then of course the authorities are going to be interested. Clandestine Christians in China have never been involved in the planning or execution of violent acts in China — yet they risk arrest by even having an unsanctioned get-together in their homes! In the US, tens of millions practice their religion without government molestation, even “scary” religions, yet in China, a person even talking with their next door neighbor about religion can get them on a list.
If a teacher in the US shows a video of the Kent State protests or plays disparaging videos about Ronald Reagan, the FBI doesn’t show up.
I can walk into any bus station in America and buy a bus ticket to anywhere without being denied because I may have had friends that were anti-capitalist. But in China, you can be denied the right to travel even within China if you are identified as a someone who has associated with anti-CCP elements. Look at Ai Wei Wei — an artist with 24/7 surveillance because he dared make a fuss about the Sichuan earthquake. He has been arrested, detained on multiple occasions, denied a passport and all sort of other indignities for simply making art. And yet in the US, we have stand up comedians that have built hugely successful careers criticizing and even humiliating the government, government officials and government policies. We have protest groups that burn effigies of presidents practically in front of the White House without being sent to a re-education camp, having their kids kicked out of school and/or banishment to the countryside. Try that in Beijing. See what happens when an Occupy protest happens on the streets of Shanghai.
Comparing China to the US is comparing a pigeon to a velociraptor when it comes to this stuff.
But it doesn't seem unreasonable to see present-day China as a potential future state of the USA|Western Europe and want to prevent that. (Not to mention wanting to think about how change might be effected in China. Hearing about what regular Mandarin citizens face is rough enough, and the situation for the Uyghurs is of course worse.)
I wouldn't take the parent's statement as one of moral equivalency. I see it as a reminder to notice similar trends within and not rely so much on exceptionalism or the existing milieu to carry you through without effort, forever. Even Chinese society was at one point perfectly free, even if you have to go back two thousand years.
> If a teacher in the US shows a video of the Kent State protests or plays disparaging videos about Ronald Reagan, the FBI doesn’t show up.
(...) when I got to the airport, the FBI, the CIA, the TSA; they came and intercepted me. All these guys in black suits. And they took me in a back room and started questioning me about the Stokley Carmichael speech that I was listening to. They probably, you know, have some sort of bug, or some sort of tap or something... But, umm... they were very concerned with me listening to this Stokley Carmichael speech from 1967. You know? Forty years ago. So, words that he said forty... now, we have gangsta rappers - we have rappers who talk about shooting other people all the time; killing... but the FBI's not looking for them. They're looking at me because I'm listening to this speech from forty years ago. And it shows you the power of those words, is that they resonate even to now. The FBI is still scared of this man. He doesn't have nearly the same influence over our community as he did then, but yet, they still stopped me at the airport for listening to his speech.
That's not to say it's the same - it's just a reminder that there's danger that surveillance can curb free speech - which curbs involvement - which in turns undermine the processes for democratic change.
> Clandestine Christians in China have never been involved in the planning or execution of violent acts in China
Firstly, the Christian element to the Taiping Rebellion[0] is one reason why the Chinese state is wary of Christianity outside the carefully controlled state form that is permitted. Religion can obviously contribute to social unrest.
Secondly, house churches in China tend to promote the vision of a coming Kingdom of God that will do away with all the rulers of the world. Anywhere else in the world, that is viewed as an entirely mainstream aspect of Christian doctrine. However, the Chinese Communist Party sees this as an attack on their own authority, and so they want Christians to remain within the state church that downplays this doctrine.
With regard to this second point, it is not just Christianity. The same treatment applies for any other sociopolitical movement in China that envisions a future for the country without a place for the established Communist Party in it. It doesn’t matter if Christians are not advocating violence. The mere fact that they even question the everlasting authority of China’s authorities is already offensive enough to get them condemned.
Hi there. I was born in China and have been in here for more than two decades and I'm pretty sure that the reason CCP consider Christian as detrimental is absolutely nothing with Taiping Rebellion.
To understand this, you have to learn that what CCP did from 1950 to 1990 is aiming on sandificate the whole society. They successfully destroyed all tradition local communities under the name of "reform for communism", by killing landlords in rural and taking away fortunes of rich men in cities. Just like what happened to Jews in 1930s, German. People are atomic and not self organized. They only focus on their own interest and no concept of being a member of a local group.
However, Christians are encouraged to build local communities, and holding regularly meetings in Church or someone's home. This is level 0 alert for CCP.
There is always this knee-jerk “What about the US?” every time there is an article like this. If you haven’t lived in China and actually lived within their system, it’s easy to take for granted the freedom Americans have.
I taught in China and showed a YouTube (via VPN) of the Tiananmen Sqaure uprising to a classroom of high school senior journalism students. This was an international school and there wasn’t a single Chinese citizen in the room — a few days later I am called to the principal’s office because they had a visit from MSS about potential “subversive content” being presented in a classroom. This was about 6 years ago. Some of the teachers held clandestine bible study on weekends — the fact that it had to be clandestine should say something. Even the most radical Muslim in the US isn’t going to get arrested for having a religious meeting in his home. Of course if the conversation leads to a conspiracy to commit violence, then of course the authorities are going to be interested. Clandestine Christians in China have never been involved in the planning or execution of violent acts in China — yet they risk arrest by even having an unsanctioned get-together in their homes! In the US, tens of millions practice their religion without government molestation, even “scary” religions, yet in China, a person even talking with their next door neighbor about religion can get them on a list.
If a teacher in the US shows a video of the Kent State protests or plays disparaging videos about Ronald Reagan, the FBI doesn’t show up.
I can walk into any bus station in America and buy a bus ticket to anywhere without being denied because I may have had friends that were anti-capitalist. But in China, you can be denied the right to travel even within China if you are identified as a someone who has associated with anti-CCP elements. Look at Ai Wei Wei — an artist with 24/7 surveillance because he dared make a fuss about the Sichuan earthquake. He has been arrested, detained on multiple occasions, denied a passport and all sort of other indignities for simply making art. And yet in the US, we have stand up comedians that have built hugely successful careers criticizing and even humiliating the government, government officials and government policies. We have protest groups that burn effigies of presidents practically in front of the White House without being sent to a re-education camp, having their kids kicked out of school and/or banishment to the countryside. Try that in Beijing. See what happens when an Occupy protest happens on the streets of Shanghai.
Comparing China to the US is comparing a pigeon to a velociraptor when it comes to this stuff.